5 takeaways from tonight’s Biden-Stephanopoulos interview
The 22-minute sit-down bookended a day-long campaign swing through Wisconsin, during which the president rejected calls to drop out of the race.

Joe Biden doubled down on his intentions to remain the Democratic Party’s presidential nominee in an ABC News interview tonight with anchor George Stephanopoulos that many Democratic elected officials and donors said could determine if they would stand behind the president’s candidacy.
The interview came eight days after a weak performance in the first presidential debate raised questions about Biden’s mental fitness a little more than four months before voters decide if they want four more years of his presidency or to empower Donald Trump, a man Biden views as an existential threat to American democracy, with a second term.
And it was the bookend of a campaign swing through Madison, Wisconsin, where Biden delivered a fiery speech to over 1,000 supporters at a local middle school before expressing a sense of optimism to Stephanopoulos that long-term observers of the president are used to.
“I’m optimistic about this country. I don’t think we’re a country of losers that [Trump] points out. I don’t think America’s in tough shape. I think America is on the cusp of breaking through in so many incredible opportunities,” he said. “In this next term, I’m gonna make sure we straighten out the tax system. I’m gonna make sure we’re in a situation where we have health care for all people, where we’re in a position where we have child care and elder care and all these things.”
The latest polls show Biden trailing Trump in the state by less than two points. Biden won Wisconsin by 20,682 votes in 2020, flipping the state blue after the former president was victorious in Wisconsin on his path to upsetting former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton four years earlier.
The president traveled to his Wilmington, Delaware, home this evening before another campaign stop in Pennsylvania on Sunday.
ABC News announced the exclusive sit-down on Tuesday after the White House and Biden campaign went into damage-control mode after Biden’s weak debate performance last week called into question whether Biden should remain the Democratic Party’s presidential candidate.
The first clip of the interview aired earlier this evening on World News tonight. The interview will be re-aired in its entirety on Sunday on This Week with George Stephanopoulos. The network previously planned to drop snippets of the conversation throughout the weekend, with the full Q&A airing on Sunday. ABC News also provided an unedited transcript of the interview.
Below are five takeaways from the interview, which wrapped up over an hour ago.
1. Biden takes the blame for the debate setback
Some critics of the president’s performance have blamed the tight circle of senior advisors and aides who led the debate prep over six days at Camp David.
But Biden told Stephanopoulos that his performance was no one’s fault but his own and he was to blame for the poor showing.
“I was exhausted. I didn’t listen to my instincts in terms of preparing,” he said. “It was a bad night.”
The White House confirmed Biden had a cold when reporters asked about his scratchy voice after the first response to the debate moderator’s question. The president told donors this week that jet lag also contributed to the performance.
But Biden returned from his trip to France to mark the 80th anniversary of D-Day several days before debate camp.
“Because I was sick. I was feeling terrible,” Biden responded when Stephanopoulos asked him why the window between his return from Europe and the debate was insufficient for his recovery. “Matter of fact the docs with me. I asked if they did a COVID test because they’re trying to figure out what was wrong. They did a test to see whether or not I had some infection, you know, a virus. I didn’t. I just had a really bad cold.”
The president also declined to throw his team under the bus when reporters asked him if he would consider a staff shakeup as his administration and campaign attempt a course correction.
“Any mistake made is my fault,” he told the traveling press pool outside of Air Force One after the interview.
2. Biden won’t take a cognitive test
Trump and his far-right allies have challenged President Biden to take a cognitive test to measure his mental capabilities. Biden was asked several times if he would be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cognitive tests and release the results to the public.
“Look, I have a cognitive test every single day,” he said. “Every day I have that test. Everything I do—not only am I campaigning, but I’m running the world.”
Biden told Stephanopoulos that Americans should watch him if they want reassurance that his age and health aren’t limitations.
“Well, I’ve already done it,” he added, again referencing the daily cognitive test he said he takes. This will be the basis of oft-asked follow-up questions next week at White House press briefings. (FYI: Trump claims as far back as 2018 he “aced” a cognitive test, but experts pointed out it wasn’t definitive or diagnostic.)
When Stephanopoulos asked if Biden could effectively serve for four more years, President Biden highlighted his accomplishments, including expanding NATO, countering Putin and establishing a trilateral security partnership between Australia, the United Kingdom and the US. He also pointed to the international support he rallied for Ukraine, how he encouraged Japan to increase its budget and secured significant investments from South Korea to revitalize the American semiconductor industry.
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3. Biden said God is the only one who can convince him to drop out
The president often asks voters to compare him to the alternative, not the almighty. But it’s the latter whom Biden said is the only one that can convince him to step down.
“If the Lord Almighty and tells me that, I might do that,” he said when asked if he could be swayed that he couldn’t beat Trump in November. “The Lord Almighty’s not coming down.”
The president’s defiance is partly due to his disbelief of the polls, which he said were wrong in 2020 and are skewed against him now. In fact, he thinks the race is closer than the numbers indicate.
“It’s a tossup,” he said. “New York Times had me behind before anything having to do with this race. Nothing’s changed substantially since the debate in the New York Times poll. (The poll has him down six points post-debate, the biggest lead of the campaign for Trump.)
Biden also said he was unfazed by vulnerable Senate Democrats outrunning him in the key battleground states he would have to win to secure reelection.
“That’s not unusual in some states. I carried an awful lot of Democrats the last time I ran in 2020,” he said. “Look, I remember them telling me the same thing in 2020. ‘I can’t win. The polls show I can’t win.’ Remember 2024, 2020, the red wave was coming.” (The so-called red wave was predicted in the 2022 midterms when Republicans were expected to make significant gains in the House and win back the Senate. Neither outcome happened.)
4. Biden said rallies will turn his campaign around
The election is 123 days from today, an eternity in politics. And as I mentioned in Wednesday’s newsletter, Trump is bound to generate a few news cycles in the weeks ahead once he announces his vice presidential pick and when he accepts the nomination at the Republican Convention later this month.
But Trump has demonstrated an uncanny ability to weather any storm since he arrived on the political scene in 2015, so it will take more than his unforced errors to reverse Biden’s electoral fortunes.
Biden said rallies like the one he held before the interview would be how he turns the campaign around.
“You saw it today,” he added. “How many people draw crowds like I did today? Find me more enthusiastic than today?”
When Stephanopoulos reminded the president of the crowds Trump attracts to his events, Biden was unbothered.
“He can draw a big crowd, but what does he say? Who does he have?” Biden said. “I’m the guy supposedly in trouble. We raised $38 million within four days after this. We have over a million individual contributors [that donate] less than 200 bucks.”
Stephanopoulos ended the conversation with a poignant question: How will Biden feel in January if he stays in the race, is unable to turn the campaign and everything he says about Trump comes to pass?
“I'll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the goodest job as I know I can do, that's what this is about. Look, George, think of it this way: You’ve heard me say this before. I think the United States and the world is at an inflection point when the things that happen in the next several years are gonna determine what the next six, seven decades are gonna be like,” he said. “And who’s gonna be able to hold NATO together like me? Who’s gonna be able to be in a position where I’m able to keep the Pacific Basin in a position where we’re at least checkmating China now? Who’s gonna do that? Who has that reach? Who knows all these [people]?” I guess a good way to judge me, is you’re gonna have now the NATO conference here in the United States next week. Come listen—see what they say.”
5. Biden will still need his Hill kingmakers
Throughout the interview, I reflected that we’re only discussing the future of Biden’s re-election campaign because of one of his most powerful congressional allies.
You may recall Biden was reeling in 2020 after losing in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada during the Democratic primary. Three days before the South Carolina primary, Rep. Jim Clyburn (S.C.), the former number-three House Democrat and a longtime Biden emissary to Black America, endorsed him—a move that catapulted his candidacy to victory in the Palmetto State and, ultimately, the general election.
Clyburn maintained his support for the president in an interview on MSNBC this week.
“I want this ticket to continue to be Biden-Harris,” he said. “And then we'll see what happens after the next election.”
Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) did the same through a spokesperson.
“Speaker Pelosi has full confidence in President Biden and looks forward to attending his inauguration on January 20, 2025,” press secretary Ian Krager said in a statement.
White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre name-dropped Clyburn and Pelosi several times in responses to questions to a call from Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) for Biden to withdraw his candidacy.
“I also read some supportive statements that have heard from leaders of Congress. Former Speaker Pelosi, I read out what she has laid out. I read out what Congressman Clyburn has said,” Jean-Pierre said on Tuesday. “I think that matters as well.”
But it’s worth noting the votes of confidence came after Pelosi acknowledged the concerns about Biden’s performance.
“I think it’s a legitimate question to say, ‘Is this an episode or is this a condition?’” she said on MSNBC.
In a separate interview with the network, Clyburn said he would ultimately have to wait for opinions from medical experts.
“Because I’m not a doctor,” he added. “So I have no idea the extent to which all of this may have occurred.”
So it’s no surprise Biden took the time, though not as quickly as some would have liked, to shore up support with calls to his closest congressional power brokers—including Clyburn, Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.)—ahead of the House and Senate’s return on Monday from the July 4th recess.
While voters I’ve talked to across the Democratic coalition seem to have given Biden more grace than the establishment, this interview still may not be enough to pull the train back into the station. How these leaders respond to the interview will illuminate how much more work he has to do to ease the concerns of the broader caucus.